An Interview With Mark Tullius: Former MMA Fighter Turned TBI and CTE Activist
Reading Time: 33 minutes
This week, the HappiHuman community is in for a treat!
I sat down to interview a former ivy league football player and MMA fighter who is now an activist for TBI and CTE to hear about his experiences with multiple concussions, what prompted him to stop fighting, and how he turned things around for himself.
So stay tuned to read a summary of the conversation we had.
If you have kids in contact sports or have sustained a concussion yourself, you don’t want to miss this!
TBI and CTE in Sport
With growing rates of traumatic brain injury (TBI) and concussion among sports like soccer, wrestling, football, and mixed martial arts, CTE is becoming a real worry.
If you’re not familiar with it, CTE stands for Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy. It is a progressive and fatal brain disease that can result after repeated traumatic brain injuries, including concussions and repeated blows to the head. CTE has been gaining media attention lately, especially among professional football players and boxers.
The initial symptoms of CTE are quite common and may not warrant many to pay attention. They can include short-term memory loss, changes in mood, confusion or disorientation, difficulty thinking or making decisions. Many of these complains are often brushed off, rightly or wrongly, as a “normal” consequence of aging. However, the long-term consequences of CTE can be alarming and are hard to ignore.
As CTE progresses, additional concerns like slurred speech, increased problems with memory, tremors, slowed movements, muscle stiffness, and difficulty eating or swallowing may develop. Eventually, dementia is likely to develop.
But not all hope is lost!
Players of any sport or people who have sustained one or more concussions can do something about it.
So without further ado, let me introduce you to my guest, Mark Tullius.
For those of you who are not familiar with him, Mark has a very diverse background. He started out as a high school then Ivy league football player, and later became an MMA fighter. After a few good blows to the head and the development of some concerning symptoms, he gave it all up to begin his recovery.
During this time, he became a researcher and author of several books, using writing as one form of therapy.
His most recent book is a piece of non-fiction due to come out in November of 2021 called “TBI or CTE: What the Hell is Wrong With Me.” As an advocate for TBI and CTE, Mark shares his experiences after sustaining multiple concussions and how he managed to turn things around for himself.
Here’s the interview I had with Mark.
Available on iTunes, Spotify & all major platforms
An Interview With Mark Tullius
Me: I must say, you have quite the impressive background - from a former high school and Ivy league football player, to MMA fighter, to researcher and author, and who is now a TBI advocate.
Mark: I never guessed this is what I’d be doing. In fact, after my last non-fiction book I swore I would never write non-fiction again. So the decision to write a book about traumatic brain injuries wasn’t something I wanted to do.
But I had friends that I played football with that wrote to me telling me they were in brain studies or had these different things going on. I am friends with so many fighters. I interviewed over 300 fighters but know so many more. I’m worried about them, so that’s why I started the book.
That’s also when I discovered my own problems. I thought I had coasted through everything and got through it without any issues. But that definitely wasn’t the reality of it.
Me: And that’s what I would like to talk to you about today - the rising incidences of traumatic brain injury and mental health problems in sport and then how you’ve been able to turn things around for yourself.
This is one of the things I am most interested in as a Brain Health Coach and Natural Nutritionist - focusing on educating people about brain health and what they can do to help themselves. I’ve seen a lot of kids and teens who’ve been suffering and having academic problems or issues but not really knowing or understanding why that could be the case.
Thanks again so much for being here and sharing your experiences with us today.
Mark: My pleasure!
This is something I have become very passionate about, especially now that I understand how much of a bigger issue it really is.
When I started my book, I thought I was writing it about football players and fighters. I wasn’t thinking about all the other contract sports. And then on top of that, something like 2 million people a year have traumatic brain injuries from multiple sources that have damage. And how many more people have had them in the past and are still walking around with all these symptoms? Now I understand. If I could help someone else take a look at themselves and understand that this could be one of the reasons why they are feeling this way, and then give them some options and help them understand there is hope.
That was one of the big things with me and one of the places where I started hitting a little bit of a depression - when I saw my damage. We had that old mindset that you can’t fix your brain or that if you’re on the decline, especially if you’re in your forties, then it’s all down hill. But I want to let everyone know that is not the case at all.
Me: personally, I do not know a lot about the mixed martial arts, but maybe let us know how you got into the sport, what it was like for you, and what ended up happening for you personally.
Mark: Ok. I always like to start off by saying I wasn’t a good fighter. And that not being a good fighter was almost why I didn’t write my first book, “Unlocking the Cage,” because I thought - who was I to be writing a book about fighting if I wasn’t very good at it?
But in writing the TBI book, I realized that’s probably more of a reason to write it - because I wasn’t very good.
I jumped into fighting after graduating from college. I was working as a bodyguard and had to do some different self-defence classes. I realized I could be kind of good at this. I found jujitsu and started training, and all of a sudden jumped right into fighting. I was very self-destructive. I was fighting for the wrong reasons - I wanted violence , was very self-destructive, and suicidal at the time, too - through most of my life. That was one of the draws of it. That and wanting to have fame.
So MMA wasn’t working out and I got talked into getting into professional boxing with absolutely zero amateur experience. But I was a big strong tough guy and moved to Vegas. That’s where I took a lot of damage. I was sparring with professional boxers who were 17-and-0 and I had no experience whatsoever.
There was one time I had double-vision and a headache for about two and half weeks. I realized my speech was slurring and I was reversing the order of my words. That was kind of scary.
There were a couple of times I had about a fifteen minute break where I lost consciousness. I remember seeing the punch coming and then going into my corner, never losing consciousness, but the next 15 minutes were gone. I came to and didn’t know what day it was - so a lot of scary stuff like that.
But I always told myself, I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine. I did brain games and always tested high on stuff like that so I thought I must be doing ok because I’m able to still use my reasoning and do well on these tests. That’s how I found fighting.
“Unlocking the Cage” was a good thing and a bad thing. One of the good things is it got me back into exercising again. It got me out of my comfort zone. It got me doing a lot of good stuff. But the bad part was it got me back into training again so I was thinking about fighting again at 42.
I was sparring with guys when I had no reason to be doing that. So I was taking more abuse. I had a couple more concussions in the 3 or 4 years that I was doing the project, which added to whatever else I had going on.
Me: Right. And can you tell us a little more about your research and the study you did on fighters?
Mark: Yeah. I really did it to understand more about myself. I could never understand why I fought - especially because I wasn’t making money and I wasn’t any good at it.
When I worked as a bouncer or bodyguard or security guard, I was always the guy who broke up the fight, the same as a prison officer. I was always the peace-keeper. So it was a little bit strange and no one could believe why I wanted to go into MMA. That’s why I did the study. And that’s why I learned a lot about myself and other people and how many different reasons there are for fighting.
There was no clear cut answer - like “I fought for A, B, and C.” But I did get to realize and was able to see the guys that were unsuccessful, that were fighting for more identity and to prove they were a tough guy - more like myself at that time. I realized I shared a lot of characteristics with them. But it was pretty fascinating to see all that.
We’re still doing some work in the background for all that - trying to find out about personality tests and different personalities of MMA fighters using different programs using all the footage I have of all the interviews I did. So there may still be more information coming out about it. But for the most part, it was me trying to figure out who these people were as individuals and why they fought. I was incredibly impressed by them.
When I went into it, I was not liking MMA. I didn’t care for MMA at all - probably because of my bad experiences with it. But once I started talking to these people, I realized they’re no different form anybody else. So I really enjoyed that.
But I do have a hard time watching fights now. I can’t watch football. I cannot watch the NFL because you just see brain damage, brain damage, brain damage. The same thing goes for fighters - I just hope it’s not as severe.
Me: Were there some common symptoms or problems that you noticed across the board with the different players?
Mark: At the time I was interviewing them, traumatic brain injury wasn’t really a thought. But I was looking at a lot of guys, especially if they had lots of fights, whether they were slurring a lot of their words, if there were certain things like that I could tell - like if they had anger problems or whatever else.
But at that time I wasn’t really paying that much attention and didn’t have an understanding of what it could be. But I’ve had talks with guys since - one really sad talk with one of my former sparring partners, a boxer. We were talking about where he was mentally and he was telling me he’s fine, he’s fine, he’s fine. But when I started going over all the different symptoms I had, and I was sharing my experiences, I said I had this and this and this. And then he was like - oh my gosh, I didn’t know that was related. I’m 100% like that and I’m like this…
So I think lots of times, even if you just have a normal conversation, you won’t really know the extent of someone’s damage because they may not know it themselves. They may just think that they’re fine. When I was doing my TBI research, I thought I was fine until I saw the proof that I was not fine. Until I saw the map of my brain. Until I saw my scores on the IVA-2 test. Until I saw these different things, I was telling myself I was fine. I don’t have those symptoms. But until those symptoms were elevated and they were pointed out to me, I thought I was just fine.
Me: Yeah. And that’s the problem with traumatic brain injuries. They are invisible. You can’t see them. And if someone were to look at you they’d say - oh you look great. But that’s actually one of the worst things that anyone can ever tell someone who’s sustained a brain injury - is that you look awesome. That almost makes matters worse.
So connecting with other people and sharing your experiences so they may be realizing - oh ok, so maybe this isn’t exactly normal. Or maybe there is something wrong with me. And maybe there is also hope - which is important as well.
Did you have a worst time or bottom out at any point? Was there a tipping point that made you realize that that sport was not the best for you?
Mark: No. The only thing that got me to stop was that I finally realized I wasn’t going to be successful at it.
It was a pretty severe knockout. It was in Florida. My final fight. And it was one of those times I lost about 10 or 15 minutes of consciousness where I remember seeing the punch and kept fighting for a couple of minutes. But I didn’t remember shaking the guy’s hand or walking to the locker room. The next thing I remember was sitting with my coach in the locker room and he was scared, telling me, “Hey, we’re about to take you to the hospital because you just said the same thing six times.”
That was scary. But again, honestly the only reason I stopped fighting - it wasn’t really ever a concern for my brain at any point. I had very little concern for myself or my wellbeing - it just wasn’t there.
I think one of the most powerful things when I started doing the research for the TBI book, was that I found out about Dr. Mark Gordon and his hormone regulation protocol. And after only two weeks on his protocol, I was in the backyard and started crying. Normally my routine, for as long as I could remember, would be going outside early in the morning after I dropped the kids off at school, and getting high - using cannabis right away. I would be using cannabis all day long - back then I had no idea why I was using it, just that it helped me with writing. I didn’t realize how much calm it gave me and let me be at this place.
But on this day, it was two weeks after the protocol started, I was in the backyard - I hadn’t even smoked yet - and I started crying. Not because something was wrong, but because I had this absence of all the depression, the anxiety, the irritation… all the stuff I had been carrying was so much lower that I could notice, “Oh my God - I don’t have these things.”
““I started crying - not because something was wrong, but because I had this absence of all the depression, the anxiety, the irritation… That’s what made me realize I had been living all this time at such an unhealthy level.””
That’s what made me realize I had been living all this time at such an unhealthy level. So having it dissipate and go down a little bit was huge. Then it took probably the course of a year to get my bloodwork where we wanted. And, that was only one step in the whole recovery. But it was a very important first step, I believe.
Me: That must have been life-changing - to realize the absence of the things that you had been dealing with for a long time. Would you say the depression and anxiety and anger and those kinds of things, were they a result of brain injuries that you sustained probably starting in high school or later on in life?
Mark: It is so hard to say. I almost feel guilty if I even hint at that.
In my book, I make a point of saying I don’t know where this damage came from. I don’t know what screwed me up. I don’t know if I had these dark thoughts because I had a blow to the head on the left side early on - I'm not sure. I’m not sure why I was suicidal at a young age. Again, it’s a combination of so many different factors. But for sure, I would say, TBI’s have impacted it. And that’s what the doctors would say, too.
One of my doctors would say - yeah, your TBI’s have been preventing you from going into deep sleep, for almost 20 years. It had been so long since I wasn’t getting quality deep sleep, and that was only adding to all the problems because I was not getting rid of any of the waste at night time and all of that.
So, yeah, it’s been incredible. It’s been definitely the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. But it was a tough journey and hard seeing some of that stuff.
Me: Yeah, I bet. That’s incredible. I’m sure you’ve got lots of stories and lots of different things that have happened. If we could just talk about your experiences again for a little - do you actually recall your first brain injury or one of the first?
Mark: I remember being worried as a young kid - I don’t know if I was in second grade or third grade - but I hit the back of my head on a sprinkler at school and was knocked out. I had headaches for a while after that and actually had to go get an MRI. I don’t think they ever saw anything with that.
A lot of different concussions made me completely knocked out playing football in high school and then also at Brown (University). And a lot of scary little things. But again, I just bounced back from everything. I thought I was fine. So it’s hard to point to any one specific moment - probably because there were so many of them.
But now, one thing I do remember - there was a time at Brown that always bothered me because I was doing a drill and the coach was getting on me because I couldn’t do the drill right. And it was a simple drill. It was go right, go left, go right. And he was getting so angry at me that I just couldn’t do it. I couldn’t go right, left right. And I guarantee that it’s because my brain was just a mess.
Who knows when I had just had my last concussion. Because back then, if you get a concussion you just don’t say anything. And if you do say anything, you still just get up, brush it off, and get right back in the huddle. And that’s it.
So looking back at moments like that - I can pinpoint a couple - that’s probably why, because my brain was on the fritz.
One time when I was boxing and I had a 15 minute loss of time, I realized later, during the writing of my book, that I had just crashed my car one or two days prior. I was going 70 miles per hour and hit the centre divider on the freeway and I definitely had a blow to the head. And then I was sparring against an undefeated boxer two days later. So I know those definitely left some kind of damage.
Me: Right. And then you had alluded to the fact that your coach was getting angry with you and so on. What were the reactions and attitudes of your coaches or doctors at the time, after coming back with repeated injuries?
Mark: Back then no one seemed to care, I don’t think.
And maybe it wasn’t the coach’s fault, because a big part of it was the players, like myself, not reporting it. And that’s one of the big problems now with sports because if you report your concussion, you know you’re not going to play for a while and that someone else is going to take your spot. Then you have to work that much harder to get it back, if you do get it back. So a lot of players will not even admit that they have a concussion.
I don’t want to blame it on the coaches saying it was their fault. And back then, twenty years ago, they just didn’t have the science. They didn’t know it was as big of a problem. Take the NFL - with everyone saying we’re fine, we’re fine - concussions aren’t an issue. This goes on at the college level and professional levels.
My boxing coaches and MMA coaches, they were always concerned. And they were the ones that actually talked me into stopping fighting, saying you have a career in front of you. You can do different things. You do not need to keep fighting. You have other talents. So they helped steer me in the right direction.
Me: That’s good, especially when your brain has been so damaged. You might not be able to think clearly or think straight. So having someone rational in your corner recognizing the fact that maybe things aren’t right, then helping you do something about it. That’s really important. And I don’t know If everybody has those kinds of voices in their corner helping them out. Why do you think that twenty years ago people didn’t report concussions?
Mark: I think part of it was that overall attitude of “be a man” - especially in sports like football. It’s a sport where you know you’re going to get hurt. You are going to be injured. You’re going to be in a lot of pain. You know, it’s not a fun sport - everything’s going to hurt. So having your head hurt a little bit - that’s not a big thing. That wasn’t important - it wasn’t a real concern. I don’t think anyone realized lasting damage. they probably thought maybe back then it was scary.
My old understanding of a concussion was if you get a concussion, don’t let that person sleep, and if they get through to the next day then they’re fine. That was kind of what I thought a concussion was. I never thought - oh you might have problems 5-10 years down the road because of that concussion and the repetitive, all these sub-concussive blows to the head. Especially with me having this damage, like a lot of guys, they might get out of fighting, they might get out of football and feel totally fine.
It’s not until 5-10 years later that this inflammation process and this disruption of the hormones has put him in this place where he wonders how did I get here? Nothing happened to me recently. Nothing happened to me this week or last year.
My doctor pointed out that most people forget about whatever head trauma they have and it doesn’t come up until you start doing a detailed history. That’s when they remember - oh, I was in a car accident. Oh I was on a motorcycle and hit my head. Or whatever it might be. So a lot of that doesn’t come out until a lot later, I think.
Me: Absolutely. And that doesn’t just apply to fighters or players - it applies to anyone. You fall out of a tree when you are a little kid and you don’t have any recollection of it. Well some of those issues that could have happened or stemmed from that time, manifest years or decades later and you’ve got no idea why. That’s just good advice to anyone - if you recognize you might be slurring your speech or you might be kind of confused or keep forgetting things - that something might have happened a long time ago. And it’s never too late to change, is it? That’s the other important thing - there is hope and you can do something about it. So how were you able to turn things around for yourself?
Mark: I would say for me there were three big things. It’s important to realize that all three do cost a little bit of money. I probably spent a total of maybe $20,000 on my brain over the course of a couple years over different treatments.
The first one was having my hormones regulated., I think that’s super important. So I think that should be the first step for anyone. Have your blood work done, see where your hormones are at. If they’re a mess, it’s probably because of inflammation in the brain. If your hormones are not regulated, getting that fixed.
The second part was treating the mental health aspect of it - the emotional part of it with therapy because, let’s say I have these anger issues. I clear up all the inflammation in my brain, maybe I shouldn’t react that way but I’ve been reacting that way for so long, that I’m going to keep following those same patterns. I’m going to still be that defensive. I’m still going to have these negative reactions until I’ve really looked at why is this happening and how do I want to really look at it? Ok, let’s work on that. So the emotional part was important.
And then the third part for me was I went to National Upper Cervical Chiropractic Association - NUCCA. They adjust the top two vertebra - just the atlas and the axis. That’s all they are concerned with. Mine were really impacted from concussions, so that was aligned. The hard part was I wasn’t able to measure how much it helped my brain because at the same time I was also doing neurofeedback - and that was probably one of the biggest things - my brain was primed and ready for it. The jumps that I made with my attention and focus were incredible. Even improvement in my cognitive testing was huge. And so that was the big stiff.
But then I also put in my book all the things you should be doing in addition to that - and that anyone can do. The exercise, the sleep, the diet, different coping mechanisms like cold water therapy, or psychedelics, or cannabis or all these other things like writing, music, language to work our brain - to try to be proactive and to try to get a handle on it. So I think there are a lot of options out there - I did not cover them all, for sure. Not only because not having the time or finances, but I actually got to a place where I thought - man, I feel good. I thought about doing the SPECT scan through the Amen Clinics, but I thought I feel awesome right now - I don’t feel like I need it. It may just be a waste of time and money. Maybe they could help me improve my brain more but I'm happy.
I think at some point you have to say - ok, I’m in a good place. So let’s just enjoy this and not dwell on it so much.
Me: That’s awesome that you mentioned all those different modalities, as well, that people often don’t think about. Treatment isn’t just a one-fasciated approach - there are many different components or aspects that can make a big difference. Just out of curiosity what type of biofeedback were you using?
Mark: I can’t even remember the name of it. We did the QEEG scan to do the brain mapping. But it was really interesting. You’re simply sitting in front of this big TV screen/video game with this big electrode on the sport they want to boost or lower and you just sit there for about 30 minutes doing nothing. So it was little hard at times.
I had my daughter do it, as well. And my wife. Even my nephew and my mother. After I did all the changes for myself, we found out my mother was definitely headed toward dementia. Her sister has really bad dementia, and my mom hadn’t been sleeping forever. So we sent her to do the neurofeedback and now she sleeps great, all her testing has improved, and she’s now no longer on that pre-dementia slide. With her, that was the only thing we added in to her treatment.
Me: That’s amazing. And that’s awesome that those modalities are available and they’re for everybody. What about lifestyle adjustments? How important would you say lifestyle adjustments like nutrition and exercise and quality sleep are for brain health?
Mark: I think those are huge. It can be hard to say improve your sleep if, let’s say, your brain is stuck like mine - I just couldn’t get into deep sleep no matter what I wanted to do. It wasn’t going to happen until I fixed that part.
But all those things you just mentioned are so important. I think especially with the nutrition and inflammation in the brain, and overall inflammation in the body - I think that is super important. And that’s one of the things I want to talk to you about on my podcast because I’m not knowledgeable on that. I know some basics but that’s about as far as I went. But exercise - what a difference that makes in your life - in anyone’s life, wether or not your have these issues. But especially if you have these issues. Wether you’re dealing with depression or anxiety or whatever it is, that makes such a difference.
One of the things I love, and that’s helped me out a lot - I didn’t even realize it was helping me out until later - was my writing and dealing with dark thoughts - wether it’s fiction or non-fiction. Non-fiction was awesome because I had to look at myself and really address these things then write them down. With my fiction I was able to look at it a different way and I could write stories about a guy who’s worried about his brain. I could write whatever - so just having that kind of catharsis.
Plus I spent the last three years, not really spending a lot of time, but daily trying to spend maybe 15 minutes a day trying to learn German and then also trying to do about 15 or 20 minutes on a guitar. And just realizing how much better I feel when I do that - especially with the music. I think a lot of people, if they're like me, I have a very hard time not being productive. I have so many books I want to work on. I want to go go go. I want to do stuff. I don’t want to sit there and watch tv. I want to be productive. So sometimes it's difficult for me to justify picking up a guitar or something like that. But I have to think - no , this is an actual thing that’s improving me. It’s improving my mood, it’s helping with my symptoms, and so it’s something that I should be doing. So I need to change the way that I actually look at it.
Me: That’s awesome. And all of these things you mentioned are known things, proven to help with brain health - creating new neurons and neuroplasticity. So learning a new language or instrument is definitely up there as one of the top things to do that help with neuroplasticity. So it’s amazing that you are doing all that.
Mark: Awesome.
Me: What else do you currently do to keep yourself in shape?
Mark: It used to be jujitsu - that’s what our whole family loved to do. We even have a school nearby that we helped open. But with COVID that kind of messed everything up. And with neck issues and getting older, I don’t do that as much.
But one of the nice things, and something easy that anyone can do - I really enjoy going on hour long walks with my friend. At first we were trying to run and trying to get in shape, then we realized we don’t need that. But that hour of fast walking, and we’re talking, too - we’re getting fresh air and dealing with our emotional stuff. That for me is huge. It doesn’t sound like it’s a whole lot but if people were just to do that - put in a walk whether it’s before dinner or to start your day, whatever it is, but getting in some kind of an exercise.
For people that are at a desk, another thing I really like, is every time I come into the room, I try to do some push-ups or a couple of pull-ups. Just something small throughout the day. That’s what I do for my body.
And yoga - that’s been another huge thing for me. And that’s where you can get in meditation at the same time. I have a very hard time with meditation - I almost left it out of the book, until I realized I am meditating all the time. When I go into the sauna and am stretching and working on my breath, I’m hitting three things at once: I’m stretching, I’m doing my breathing exercises, and I’m meditating. So if I can do that, that feels a lot better. My productive side likes that. Again, yoga is something incredible, especially for people with TBI’s because you work on your balance, you work on your meditation, and it’s a way to unwind and relax. And it can be incredibly difficult, as well. I think a lot of men look at yoga as being for women, but no - it’s very challenging, and you can make it as challenging as you like. I’ve had to sit out on many HITT classes.
Me: Yeah - absolutely. And that’s another good thing about it. It can be as challenging as you need it to be for you, just like all those other things that you had mentioned. Ok, talking about your new book, what is it called?
Mark: It is “TBI or CTE: What the Hell is Wrong with Me.” When I first started it, CTE - the chronic traumatic encephalopathy - that was my biggest concern. I wasn’t even really thinking about TBI’s or how they affect things. But it was the CTE that was the scary thing. But as I got into it more and more, I realized just how important TBI’s are. And how it’s all caused by these traumatic brain injuries. And with the title “What the Hell is Wrong with Me” I was hoping to really capture that thing where you know something’s not right but you have no idea what it is. I had no idea why I was so angry. I didn’t like that I had very little impulse control. I thought it was a mental weakness - not that my brain just wasn’t capable of it. So all that time I wondered what’s wrong with me? I have no idea what it is. I know something’s off. And that’s what I’m hoping will capture people’s interest in it. Whether or not they even know they’ve had a TBI.
And a lot of people, they too, may have anxiety or depression or one of these other symptoms from something else. But the methods that I explain and the treatments that I point to can still be incredibly beneficial to them.
Me: Can you tell us a little more about what is included in that book? Are you talking about your particular experiences?
Mark: Yeah. And that’s what I put at the start. Because I am not a scientist. I’m not a doctor. I’m going to show you guys what I went through on this journey. Starting with the decision to even do it, a little bit about my background, how I started to see the damage.
I had a good friend that I played football with at Brown, and he was the real reason that I wrote the book and continued to write it. Because he contacted me in order to tell me he had been in a brain study, we lost touch, but then I found out that he was dying of cancer. He couldn’t fight cancer because his CTE was so advanced. They tried doing chemo for him but it was super bad. So because of that, they had to give that up. He didn’t have a very long prognosis, but he decided to spend that time with me.
He had me fly in to spend time with him and his wife. I interviewed his daughter, as well. I think there were 3 different times I got to go spend time with him, and a big part of that was that they were talking about what they went through together. How much it had affected their family and then all the coping mechanisms they used. His wife said, “I could have driven him to suicide so many times by saying a certain thing."
I’m grateful for them sharing that - because it showed you can get through it. It doesn’t have to end in tragedy. If both people want it, then you make a plan. They had to do different things for him - like make different cards for him when he was going to go on different business trips. If he was going to fly somewhere, they had to make sure everything was in line - so they tried to remove all extra stress. And then if he did have a blow-up they would have a certain sign so the kids would leave the room to protect them that way. Then they would always have therapy afterwards.
That was an important part of the book, I think - learning, ok maybe you do have it, maybe it’s severe and you can’t get a handle on it, but you can still cope with it. You can still have a productive, healthy, happy life with it. So I think that’s an important part.
It’s looking at the different things I did, different things I tried and then pointing to all the books that I got all the information from, and my doctors. So at the end of the book, there’s a list of all that.
I didn’t want to get too technical with it - it’s a short book. I think it’s only about 140 pages. Because I realized the people that are going to be reading this and the people that probably need it the most are not going to have the attention span. I don’t like reading heavy science-type books - it won’t stick. I’ll get the gist of it. So that’s what I’m hoping - that people will get the gist of it. They’ll go for more information on something if they want it or they’ll dig some more. I’m hoping I can just expose people to this idea of taking a good look at themselves and also saying - ok there is hope. I can try different things. It doesn’t have to be one of things he tried, it may not work for me, but I’ll try something. At least get them started down that path.
Me: Right. And another thing you alluded to was support - having a good, strong support system in your corner is really important. It’s unfortunate that not everybody has that.
Mark: Yeah - that’s one of the points my friend made, too. One of the last things he told me was how blessed he was to have a wife that was that supportive. And if there’s anyone going through it, he just hopes that they have someone like that because without that… I think that greatly enhances the risk of something terrible happening or giving up on yourself. But if you do have someone that loves and cares about you, that’s super helpful.
With my relationship, it was a little bit tough because when I was looking at all this, my wife didn’t want to accept that I had problems. She kept telling me that I didn’t - so that was hard. Part of it was my fault for hiding lots of the stuff. Again, how much of it was just - ok, you’re angry, and you’re whatever. Well of course, your a forty-year-old man, of course, you’re kind of angry - we live in LA with all the traffic and whatever. So it’s always easy to write stuff off.
But another reason why I think it’s important, too is to share everything with your partner - whatever kind of mental health stuff you’re dealing with. Fully let them know - this is what I’m going through, it’s a little bit scary, I don’t even want to admit it, but here are my issues… I think it might be this. That will only allow your partner to be a better partner and actually help you.
Me: That’s a really important point to make, as well, is being honest with other people around you who you are comfortable with and who you can share information with. Brain injury is invisible. You can’t see it. And if you don’t advocate for yourself, then nobody is going to know that you’re going through anything out of the ordinary.
Mark: Mhmm. Yeah - it’s scary.
Me: It really is. So where can people find your book?
Mark: The book will be coming out in November - November 16 it will be on all sites. All my other stuff is mainly on Amazon. This book I’m going to have everywhere. I generally tell people to go to Amazon and look up Mark Tullius or you can go to my website MarkTullius.com - and it has all the information on there as well.
Me: Awesome. And are you participating in any other types of advocacy programs or are you doing anything for sport to help?
Mark: The Concussion Legacy Foundation - I’ve done a fundraiser for them. They’re awesome. They are based out of Boston University. I really appreciate everything they’ve done. That’s where I’m donating my brain when I die. The very first page at the end of my book - when the book ends, is a page for them where you can donate money or donate your brain. They definitely need brains, so I think that is huge.
They also have a Speak Up program - I haven’t signed up for it yet, but I think it’s where you go and talk to different schools. That’s something I would like to do and I think when the book comes out I’m going to try to approach more schools. A lot of football programs don’t - they don’t want anything to do with someone like me. Because it’s not good for them. I see posts all the time, and I often post on my social media about do not have your kids play tackle football before the age of 14. There is so much science out now that for every year they play before 14, just increases their chance of CTE by so much more.
I have a lot of friends that still have their kids playing because they don’t know the damage. I know they don’t want to see that, but I want them to have the information. I don’t want to put my kid in a sport that is going to ruin them. The kid doesn’t have, until they’re 18, they don’t have consent to give - like let’s hurt myself. And they’re not thinking about it. So I strongly suggest staying away from any kind of contact t sport before 14 years.
Me: Great advice. I was going to ask if there was any advice you were going to give parents of kids who are at that age wanting to play contact sports like soccer or football. Is there any other type of advice you would want to share with them?
Mark: I would say just be very proactive. Be very involved. Always be aware if they’ve had a blow to the head - keeping track.
I think if parents are present then they will pick up on things. They’ll pick up on an attitude shift or they’ll see that he’s just not acting right or whatever else. So I think being aware of those things is important. And when a head injury does happen, taking the time off. Making sure that it’s healed.
I just had a friend who was talking about his son playing college football - well now he’s not going to want to change his mind or stop playing football, but what I would do is keep an eye on him during the season and then when he’s done playing, do a scan of his brain and see where he’s at. See what kind of damage has accumulated and then take the steps to get rid of it. And also the whole time, he should be taking the right supplements, he should be eating healthy, and he should be sleeping. So doing everything you can in addition - it’s going to help your sport anyway: you know, proper eating, proper sleep, exercise - that’s all going to benefit you as an athlete anyway. Having a breathing routine, doing meditation and visualization - that’s all stuff you can probably sell to an athlete. Not selling it to them as you’re going to improve your brain health, but selling it to them as - ok, you’re going to be a better athlete.
Me: Nice. All very sage words of advice from experience. Is there anything else that you would like to share or would you like people to know about - either about brain injuries, CTE or about yourself?
Mark: I would just say be honest with yourself. Have honest conversations with your kids. I think it’s just so easy to say - you know that’s just how I am, I’ve been like that my whole life and it’s not going to get any better. No. If you want something to be better, if you don’t like the way you are, then take a real good look at it and see how to fix it. That’s just one of the things that drives me nuts - is when someone says - I can’t; that’s just how I am.
Well - you can change it. So I think that’s really important to remember. If you don’t like yourself or if you want to change something about yourself, figure out how to do it and just get it done.
Me: Awesome. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your valuable insights. I appreciate it. To learn more about Mark, you can head on over to his website. Plus you have one link that encapsulates everything, where all of your social media are in one location: youcanfollow.me/MarkTullius.
I will include that link here for people if they are interested in learning more about Mark or finding out more about his upcoming book or the other interesting things that he’s up to. Feel free to head on over there to learn more.
So thanks again, Mark, I appreciate it!
Mark: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate this.
Conclusion
I hope you enjoyed this fascinating interview I had with Mark Tullius.
If you did, and want to read something similar, be sure to check out “Life After TBI: Maggie’s Story” - the first in my series of interviews with real people who have survived a brain injury and what they have to say about it.
Other related articles that may be of interest include:
The Dangers Of Football: How Concussions Affect The Brain
Concussion Protocol: Ten Things To Do If You Have A Concussion
Brain Injury Awareness - The Consequences Of A TBI (Part 1)
Brain Injury Awareness - The Consequences Of A TBI (Part 2)
Of course, if you or a loved one need nutritional support after a concussion or brain injury, please reach out today. It’s never to late to get started.
As always, I welcome your thoughts and value your feedback. Let me know what you think by dropping me a line or commenting below.
If you haven’t already done so, please sign up to receive my newsletters for more information about brain health, neuronutrition, lifestyle tips, and nutritional advice. Of course, if I can help you or a loved one with your nutritional needs, make an appointment to see me today!
[Medical Disclaimer]
All information contained in this document is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent health problems. For all serious health issues, please contact a medical or nutrition practitioner. The information provided is based on the best knowledge of the author at the time of writing, and we do not assume liability for the information, be it direct or indirect, consequential, special exemplary, or other damages. In all circumstances, it is always wise to consult your physician before changing your diet, taking supplements, or starting any exercise or health program.